Facebook Conversation With Pro-Russian Fanatic on Chechnya

russia-chechnya

Here is an excerpt from a discussion I recently had with a pro-Russian fanatic on Facebook. Here he tries to argue that Russia is right to snuff out Chechen independence and why the Chechens have no right to their own state. I think most rational people will recognize how absurd his arguments are.

Anon: If Chechnya developed peacefully and gained its independence without posing a threat to any of its neighbors there would not be a problem with its achieving independence. Other states in the region have achieved independence from the major powers of the region namely, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia. However Russia will not allow an Islamist terrorist state to form on its borders.

Brandon Martinez: Russia is an imperial terror state that poses a threat to all of its neighbours, indeed conquered and subjugated most of them throughout history, so why is it allowed to exist but not Chechnya? Israel poses a major threat to all of its neighbours, it is a Jewish terror state, yet you recognize its “legitimacy”. America poses a global terror threat, not only to neighbours. Yet it is allowed to exist and you recognize it. Moreover, the first Chechen separtist leadership was secular, and Russia crushed it nonetheless. The “Islamist” part is just a demonization tactic to justify wanton violence. There are over 40 “Islamist” governments in the world, they are all allowed to exist. If we are to apply your argument consistently, Iran, Pakistan, Bahrain, Turkey, Afghanistan, UAE and dozens of other countries should be taken down. These “Islamist” states can exist independently but Chechnya cannot? You have no coherent argument or standard for why Chechnya should not be allowed to exist as an independent state.

Almost no modern states have been created through peaceful means. America only exists because of the various campaigns against Indians and the revolutionary war. Israel was created through a terror and ethnic cleansing campaign. Russia did not form itself peacefully, it is a standard colonial metropolis that has expanded its borders through force. If a state is only legitimate if it forms peacefully than no state on earth should exist. The Chechens cannot just write a letter to Kremlin and ask for independence and expect it to be granted. The only way to push off the Russian yoke is through violence. That’s why all separatist groups use violence to achieve their goals globally. Your argument is completely invalid.

Anon: Israel is recognized by the UN and was founded following partition and armistice agreements. If Chechnya wishes to be an independent state it must gain the right to independence following the historical process which every state undergoes. Given that it is surrounded by larger, more advanced, and more powerful states it will have to negotiate its independence within those parameters.

BM: The partition plan was immediately broken by Israel which went on a land-grabbing rampage as soon as the ink dried on the UN document. Moreover, the UN cannot just take land from one people and give it to another. If the UN decided the land and house you live on now belongs to someone else, would you vacate the premises immediately or fight for your right to be there?

Anon: Given that the land was being administered by the British and not the natives they really could not do much about it. Israel is basically a British product which protects Western and in particular US-UK interests. The native people of the region have never had self rule. The region has always been under Imperial rule or under Caliphates.

BM: You just claimed that if Chechnya is formed through violence it cannot exist. Yet Israel was formed through massive violence and terror, even against the British (King David Hotel bombing), but you recognize Israel’s “right” to exist. All nation states are more or less formed through bloody violence, terror and war. Somehow this ludicrous standard is only applied to Chechnya because you are a Russian imperialist shill.

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